Forum Index > Chat > 6 August - Aniversarea atacului de la Hiroshima

#0 by BlackCross (Raging Lunacy) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-05 14:50:00 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were nuclear attacks during World War II against the Empire of Japan by the United States of America under US President Harry S. Truman. On August 6, 1945, the nuclear weapon "Little Boy" was dropped on the city of Hiroshima, followed on August 9, 1945 by the detonation of the "Fat Man" nuclear bomb over Nagasaki. They are the only instances of the use of nuclear weapons in warfare. In estimating the number of deaths caused by the attacks, there are several factors that make it difficult to arrive at reliable figures: inadequacies in the records given the confusion of the times, and the pressure to either exaggerate or minimize the numbers, depending upon political agenda. The United States Department of Energy estimates that, at Hiroshima, the death toll from the immediate blast was roughly 70,000, with additional deaths occuring in the time soon after the explosion and in the decades that followed. The figures for Nagasaki are slightly less.  Other estimates vary widely,  and are as low as 74,000 for Nagasaki. In both cities, the overwhelming majority of the deaths were civilians. The role of the bombings in Japan's surrender, as well as the effects and justification of them, has been subject to much debate. On August 15, 1945 Japan announced its surrender to the Allied Powers, signing the Instrument of Surrender on September 2 which officially ended World War II. Furthermore, the experience of bombing led post-war Japan to adopt Three Non-Nuclear Principles, which forbids Japan from nuclear armament. Inherently immoral A number of notable individuals and organizations have criticized the bombings, many of them characterizing them as war crimes or crime against humanity. Two early critics of the bombings were Albert Einstein and Leo Szilard, who had together spurred the first bomb research in 1939 with a jointly written letter to President Roosevelt. Szilard, who had gone on to play a major role in the Manhattan Project, argued: "Let me say only this much to the moral issue involved: Suppose Germany had developed two bombs before we had any bombs. And suppose Germany had dropped one bomb, say, on Rochester and the other on Buffalo, and then having run out of bombs she would have lost the war. Can anyone doubt that we would then have defined the dropping of atomic bombs on cities as a war crime, and that we would have sentenced the Germans who were guilty of this crime to death at Nuremberg and hanged them?" A number of scientists who worked on the bomb were against its use. Led by Dr. James Franck, seven scientists submitted a report to the Interim Committee (which advised the President) in May 1945, saying: "If the United States were to be the first to release this new means of indiscriminate destruction upon mankind, she would sacrifice public support throughout the world, precipitate the race for armaments, and prejudice the possibility of reaching an international agreement on the future control of such weapons." On August 8, 1945, Albert Camus addressed the bombing of Hiroshima in an editorial in the French newspaper Combat: "Mechanized civilization has just reached the ultimate stage of barbarism. In a near future, we will have to choose between mass suicide and intelligent use of scientific conquests[...] This can no longer be simply a prayer; it must become an order which goes upward from the peoples to the governments, an order to make a definitive choice between hell and reason." In 1946, a report by the Federal Council of Churches entitled Atomic Warfare and the Christian Faith, includes the following passage: "As American Christians, we are deeply penitent for the irresponsible use already made of the atomic bomb. We are agreed that, whatever be one's judgment of the war in principle, the surprise bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are morally indefensible." In 1963 the bombings were the subject of a judicial review in Ryuichi Shimoda et al. v. The State. On the 22nd anniversary of the attack on Pearl Harbor, the District Court of Tokyo declined to rule on the legality of nuclear weapons in general, but found that "the attacks upon Hiroshima and Nagasaki caused such severe and indiscriminate suffering that they did violate the most basic legal principles governing the conduct of war." New York City: An anti-nuclear weapon display in Tompkins Square Park on August 4, 2006In the opinion of the court, the act of dropping an atomic bomb on cities was at the time governed by international law found in the Hague Regulations on Land Warfare of 1907 and the Hague Draft Rules of Air Warfare of 1922–1923 and was therefore illegal. As the first military use of nuclear weapons, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki represent to some the crossing of a crucial barrier. Peter Kuznick, director of the Nuclear Studies Institute at American University in Washington DC wrote of President Truman: ”He knew he was beginning the process of annihilation of the species. It was not just a war crime; it was a crime against humanity." Kurznick is one of several observers who believe that the U.S. was largely motivated in carrying out the bombings by a desire to demonstrate the power of its new weapon to the Soviet Union. Historian Mark Selden of Cornell University has stated "Impressing Russia was more important than ending the war in Japan." Takashi Hiraoka, mayor of Hiroshima, upholding nuclear disarmament, said in a hearing to The Hague International Court of Justice (ICJ): "It is clear that the use of nuclear weapons, which cause indiscriminate mass murder that leaves [effects on] survivors for decades, is a violation of international law". Iccho Itoh, the mayor of Nagasaki, declared in the same hearing: "It is said that the descendants of the atomic bomb survivors will have to be monitored for several generations to clarify the genetic impact, which means that the descendants will live in anxiety for [decades] to come. [...] with their colossal power and capacity for slaughter and destruction, nuclear weapons make no distinction between combatants and non-combatants or between military installations and civilian communities [...] The use of nuclear weapons [...] therefore is a manifest infraction of international law." John Bolton, former US ambassador to the United Nations, used Hiroshima and Nagasaki as examples why the US should not adhere to the International Criminal Court (ICC): "A fair reading of the treaty [the Rome Statute concerning the ICC], for example, leaves the objective observer unable to answer with confidence whether the United States was guilty of war crimes for its aerial bombing campaigns over Germany and Japan in World War II. Indeed, if anything, a straightforward reading of the language probably indicates that the court would find the United States guilty. A fortiori, these provisions seem to imply that the United States would have been guilty of a war crime for dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This is intolerable and unacceptable." Although bombings do not meet the definition of genocide, some consider that this definition is too strict, and that these bombings do represent a genocide. For example, University of Chicago historian Bruce Cumings states there is a consensus among historians to Martin Sherwin's statement, that "the Nagasaki bomb was gratuitous at best and genocidal at worst." Historical accounts indicate that the decision to use the atomic bombs was made in order to provoke an early surrender of Japan by use of an awe-inspiring power. These observations have caused some commentators to state that the incident was an act of "war terrorism". Michael Walzer wrote, "... And, finally, there is war terrorism: the effort to kill civilians in such large numbers that their government is forced to surrender. Hiroshima seems to me the classic case." This type of claim eventually prompted historian Robert Newman, a supporter of the bombings, to argue that the practice of terrorism is justified in some cases. Militarily unnecessary Those who argue that the bombings were unnecessary on military grounds hold that Japan was already essentially defeated and ready to surrender. One of the most notable individuals with this opinion was then-General Dwight D. Eisenhower. He wrote in his memoir The White House Years: "In 1945 Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives." Other U.S. military officers who disagreed with the necessity of the bombings include General Douglas MacArthur (the highest-ranking officer in the Pacific Theater), Fleet Admiral William D. Leahy (the Chief of Staff to the President), General Carl Spaatz (commander of the U.S. Strategic Air Forces in the Pacific), and Brigadier General Carter Clarke (the military intelligence officer who prepared intercepted Japanese cables for U.S. officials), and Admiral Ernest King, U.S. Chief of Naval Operations, Undersecretary of the Navy Ralph A. Bard, and Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet. "The Japanese had, in fact, already sued for peace. The atomic bomb played no decisive part, from a purely military point of view, in the defeat of Japan." Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the U.S. Pacific Fleet. "The use of [the atomic bombs] at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender." Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to President Truman. The United States Strategic Bombing Survey, after interviewing hundreds of Japanese civilian and military leaders after Japan surrendered, reported: "Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated." What was originally the Hiroshima Prefectural Industrial Promotion Hall has now been turned into the Hiroshima Peace Memorial. The atomic bomb exploded almost directly overhead.The survey assumed that conventional bombing attacks on Japan would greatly increase as the bombing capabilities of July 1945 were ...a fraction of its planned proportion... due to a steadily high production rate of new B-29s and the reallocation of European airpower to the Pacific. When hostilities ended, the USAAF had approximately 3700 B-29s of which only about 1000 were deployed. Had the war gone on these and still more aircraft would have brought devastation far worse than either bomb to many more cities. The results of conventional strategic bombing at the cease-fire were summed up thusly: "...On the basis of photo coverage, intelligence estimated that 175 square miles of urban area in 66 cities were wiped out. Total civilian casualties stemming directly from the urban attacks were estimated at 330,000 killed, 476,000 injured, and 9,200,000 rendered homeless." General Haywood S. Hansell General MacArthur has also contended that Japan would have surrendered before the bombings if the U.S. had notified Japan that it would accept a surrender that allowed Emperor Hirohito to keep his position as titular leader of Japan, a condition the U.S. did in fact allow after Japan surrendered. U.S. leadership knew this, through intercepts of encoded Japanese messages, but refused to clarify Washington's willingness to accept this condition. Before the bombings, the position of the Japanese leadership with regards to surrender was divided. Several diplomats favored surrender, while the leaders of the Japanese military voiced a commitment to fighting a "decisive battle" on Kyūshū, hoping that they could negotiate better terms for an armistice afterward. The Japanese government did not decide what terms, beyond preservation of an imperial system, they would have accepted to end the war; as late as August 9, the Supreme War Council was still split, with the hard-liners insisting Japan should demobilize its own forces, no war crimes trials would be conducted, and no occupation of Japan would be allowed. Only the direct intervention of the emperor ended the dispute, and even then a military coup was attempted to prevent the surrender. Historian Tsuyoshi Hasegawa's research has led him to conclude that the atomic bombings themselves were not even the principal reason for capitulation. Instead, he contends, it was the swift and devastating Soviet victories in Manchuria that forced the Japanese surrender on August 15, 1945. Victimele supraveţuitoare a ataculului: copii, femei, bătrăni, civili, toate mutilate de mâinile "iubiţilor noştri" americani: Editat de către BlackCross la 2007-08-05 15:12:06 Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte 1 2 3 4 5 << Precedenta      Următoarea >> #76 by ursumarius (User) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 13:29:08 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #75 AzerothX, cine-i retardat? Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #77 by McAndy (Lion) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 13:30:05 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #75 AzerothX, mai omule.. singurul retardat de aici eshti tu....... bin laden insasi a fost antrenat de fortele americane hatrule... la cat de puternici si destepti sunt americanii ei chiar nu l-au putut gasi pe bin laden da??? pffff dinspre mine... america e o natiune de oameni bolnavi si obezi, tampiti mai pe scurt.... Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #78 by BlackCross (Raging Lunacy) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 13:32:05 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #75 AzerothX, esti animala fara scrupule. Am incheiat cu tine discutia. Uite atent la oamenii acestia si bucura-te ca n-ai fost tu pe 6 august 1945 in Hiroshima http://images.google.md/images?q=victims%20of%20hiroshima&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #79 by marius55555 (Arsenaloholic) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 13:49:38 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #78 by BlackCross cind merge vorba despre fascisti toti sustin fortele opuse lor(doar citiva vorbesc contra, si pe aceia ii socot fascisti, rai, etc), dar cind despre japonezi (aliatii fascistilor) toti iau apararea lor. si dupa aia cine-i fascist si rau? Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #80 by beshlica (Power User) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 13:49:58 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] USA sucks , au ajuns la putere in lume shi fac ce vreau cu dinsa , nu suport asha ceva , cel mai rau e ca nimeni nu poate sa-i opreasca de la asta Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #81 by BlackCross (Raging Lunacy) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 13:55:20 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #79 marius55555, in razboi buni si rai nu-s, toti is rai, si nazistii, si japonezii si aliatii si uniunea. Toti au facut crime de razboi, doar ca au raspuns pentru ele doar cei ce au fost infranti. Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #82 by McAndy (Lion) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 13:56:12 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #79 marius55555, si unde vrei sa ajungi ku postul asta? Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #83 by ursumarius (User) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 15:27:16 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #80 beshlica, asa ar face oricine este ceva normal Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #84 by kaskader (Power User) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 16:02:20 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] Блин вместо того чтоб просто почтить память тех людей которые погибли, мы из за одного человека который считает себя самым самым начитаным и всезнайкай, которому кажется что он прав, а остальные настолько тупы что просто завидуют им!!!! да америка действительно сильное государство, но ты УМНИК можешь ответь за счет чего она так разбогатела!!! Только не надо говорить что она разрабатывала всё своими силами!!! П.С. Люди пусть этот жесточайший прецендент который призошёл в Хиросиме больше никогда не повторится, пусть сильные мира сего перед тем как делать какие то шаги думали головой а не о том как бы нажиться побыстрее за счет и так уже дышаших на ладан государств!!! Даай те просто писать в этой теме свои соболезнования а не выяснять друг с другом кто прав а кто виноват!!! от этого же не изменится история и люди не оживут!!! Покойтесь с миром, пусть земля вам будет пухом!!!! Editat de către kaskader la 2007-08-06 17:27:50 Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #85 by ursumarius (User) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 16:09:44 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #84 kaskader, :fool: Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #86 by BlackCross (Raging Lunacy) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 16:45:58 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #84 kaskader, +1! Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #87 by faint (Hardcore) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 17:06:27 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] Kill a yank, save the planet. Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #88 by ursumarius (User) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 18:16:41 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #87 faint, si asta inca este in limba lor Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #89 by borea737 (Uploader) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 18:34:43 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #84 kaskader, "... пусть этот жесточайший прецендент который призошёл в Хиросиме больше никогда не повторится, пусть сильные мира сего перед тем как делать какие то шаги думали головой ..." - +1 Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #90 by Tolliddzze (Purge the heretics!) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 18:52:14 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] Харбор - это военная база,Хиросима - гражданский пункт О ЧЕМ РЕЧЬ Я НЕ ВРУБАЮСЬ? кто не понимает что "малютки" были более чем излишеством - марш в 9-й класс по второму разу! на войне как на войне - но не надо забывать ради чего приходится терпеть все зверства войны - ради тех близких которые ждут тебя...........иначе мы даже не звери......постоянно слышу сравнение - "как звери" - но у людей мотивы жестокости куда изощрённее чем у зверей........ короче - америкосы хотели показать советам и всему миру что у них ядерные яйца.....у них конечно получилось.... Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #91 by JRocker (性交) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 19:20:58 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] ........... cum se zicea intr-un film romanesk... fuck USA.... #88 ursumarius, asta nui limba lor... este engleza... ( a englezilor) cred ca nui kiar corect skris aniversarea atakului.. trebuia comemorarea mortilor sau ceva de tipul acesta... Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #92 by faint (Hardcore) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 19:33:05 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #88 ursumarius, "... #87 faint, si asta inca este in limba lor ..." - Vezi comentariul de mai jos. by JRocker - "... #88 ursumarius, asta nui limba lor... este engleza... ( a englezilor) ..." Mai mult ca atat, "yank"/"yankee" e o porecla data americanilor de catre generalul britanic James Wolfe. Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #93 by TerrorSquaD (http://) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 21:06:41 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] http://play.md/video/90017dfe-418c-45e7-b03f-b2edfdca098d Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #94 by ursumarius (User) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 21:14:29 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #92 faint, n-am stiut de unde e yank Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #95 by Alexia (Born to rule) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 21:24:20 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #72 McAndy, Sunt de acord Din cate am aflat eu,Roosevelt stia ca baza Pearl harbour avea sa fie atacata si nu a facut nimic.America avea nevoie de un motiv de a se implica in razboi,de asta au si dramatizat totul cu atacul asta. Iar acum,la tema Vreau sa spun ca si mie imi pare nespus de rau, atat de toate persoanele care au murit in urma bombei,cat si cele care au suferit mai tarziu din cauza ei,pentru ca a trai si a fi chinuit de asa ceva e mult mai grav decat a muri pe loc. Asa,cand analizam niste date statistice si cautam vinovati...e usor pentru noi,deoarece judecam dintr-o parte.Chiar si daca Japonia,sau conducerea acesteia ar fi vinovata...aici merge vorba de o decizie ce o iau cativa oameni,dar care afecteaza mii de civili nevinovati. Sa se odihneasca in pace... Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #96 by NatashaKK (Power User) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 22:30:51 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #0 BlackCross, BLACKCROSS - тебе отдельное спасибо за то, что поднял тему и привлек к ней внимание!!! НЕЛЬЗЯ ЗАБЫВАТЬ ТАКИЕ ВЕЩИ!!! #84 kaskader, "... П.С. Люди пусть этот жесточайший прецендент который призошёл  в Хиросиме больше никогда не повторится, пусть сильные мира сего перед тем как делать какие то шаги думали головой  ..." - #84 kaskader, "... Покойтесь с миром, пусть земля вам будет пухом!!!! ..." - Присоединяюсь к высказанному мнению! Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #97 by marius55555 (Arsenaloholic) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 22:31:10 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] Japonia dorea sa puna mana pe piata Chinei si Asiei de sud-est , sa foloseasca resursele imense de materii prime din teritoriile aflate in marile sudului si sa intre in stapanirea porturilor strategice, asa ca japonezii de atunci nu erau chiar pasnici.  Si razboiul contra americanilor l-au inceput anume japonezii(asa ca sa nu mai aud vorbe ca americanii luptau deoarece aveau pretentii spre cucerirea teritoriilor).Atacul aerian impotriva bazei aeriene americane de la Pearl Harbor a marcat inceperea agresiunii.  " ..Bombardamentul a inceput de la ora 7.55 si a durat pana la ora 9.45 producand americanilor urmatoarele pagube : 5 cuirasate scoase din lupta , 3 crucisatoare avariate , 3 torpilatoare avariate grav si 188 de avioane distruse la sol...."  Dar aceste pagube au fost doar in urma unui atac,  nemaivorbind de pagubele in  urma urmatoarelor atacuri.  Deci americanii au avut pagube imense.  Asa ca cu mult mai multi americani au murit in urma razboiului decit japonezi in urma atacului de Hiroshima, si sa nu mai comparam mai mult numarul de victime.  Americanii au decurs la acest atac deoarece erau prea multe pagube americane si era unica metoda de a mai cistiga lupta.    Asa ca mai repet o data: japonezii singuri si-au facut-o pe capul sau .  Si daca spuneti ca populatia absolut nu era de vina, atunci va gresiti amarnic, caci anume ea a votat acel guvern nipon agresiv care a decurs la razboi. Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #98 by JRocker (性交) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 22:37:33 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] Acest mesaj nu respecta eticheta de comunicare și a fost ascuns. Click dacă oricum dorești să-l vezi. #99 by marius55555 (Arsenaloholic) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 22:41:23 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #98 JRocker    ,    asemenea si despre tine gindesc. Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte #100 by BlackCross (Raging Lunacy) (0 mesaje) at 2007-08-06 22:51:28 (903 săptămâni în urmă) - [Link] #97 marius55555, ia-te de maina cu Azeroth... sunteti de-o teapa. Mesaj util ?   Da   0 puncte

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Forum Index > Chat > 6 August - Aniversarea atacului de la Hiroshima

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